CLHbid.com Real Stories: Growing Up on the Meyer Farm Feat. Jesse Meyer

The Farmland Exchange, the official podcast of CLHBid.com. Expert insights on buying and selling farmland in Western Canada. Welcome back to the Farmland Exchange, the official podcast of CLHBid.com. I'm Devon Davidson, your host and digital media strategist for CLHBid.com. We've got an exciting episode for you today. We're going to be chatting with Jesse Meyer and diving deep into the incredible story of the Meyer Family Farm. So joining us today for that conversation, Jesse, thanks for being here.
Speaker 02:Thank you, Devon. Thank you, Roy and Alle, for having me here today. It's an honor.
Speaker 01:Yeah, and well, obviously I should introduce uh Roy Carter, CEO of COSPID.com, and Ally Carter as well, uh, legal and uh member of the executive team, the CLSpid.com.
Speaker 04:Yeah, I appreciate it, Jesse, coming to share your story with us. Um means a lot for us. Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Speaker 02:It's uh um it's a personal story, and uh I'm excited to share it with you.
Speaker 01:So let's let's kick it off, Jesse. Let's tell us a little bit about your your family history and and so I understand your dad, Leo, um, came here from Switzerland. Yeah, you bet.
Speaker 02:I'll do a little introduction about myself. Uh so yeah, Jesse Meyer grew up here in the Peace River region on a family farm that was started by my mom and dad who immigrated from Switzerland in the early 80s. Uh we we our farm currently is located in the Spirit River Woking area, which is about 45 minutes north of Grand Prairie, and we're a grain farm. Dad um settled in a few different parts of Alberta, but uh but ended up staying where we are now for the last uh I guess it was early early 90s, is where we are based right now, is is where we've been for the last 30 plus years.
Speaker 01:Yeah, we we had this conversation a little bit just you know off-air, and and so you said he started in southern Alberta, right? That's correct, yeah. So what motivated the move to northern Alberta?
Speaker 02:Which I believe is where you're from, right? I was born in Lethbridge, yeah. Okay, yes, yeah. Um yeah, so dad came, you know, as a young man in probably his early 20s. He had a family farm in in Switzerland that he ran with his dad. Uh, you know, as a as a young man, he went to agriculture school in Switzerland. After that, he I think he wanted to explore a little bit what's outside of his own area and of course see what else there is. And and he actually started in southern Alberta. I think he I don't think he initially planned to stay in in Western Canada. Okay, but I think he just came to um like a lot of young people do, right? To go work on a farm. Sure. And uh I think uh it didn't take him very long to realize that this is where he wants to be, right? So I think he started out as a worker, pretty quickly became a farm manager on a farm in southern Alberta, and uh and uh and and uh at the same time he he still farmed back in Switzerland. So I think he went back, farmed uh with his dad, um, but he kept coming back to Canada and and uh and this was in southern Alberta. I think after a few years he might have started buying uh uh a quarter or two. I'm not exactly sure how many acres he would have had down there. Um, but then after this would have been late 70s, early 80s, uh he started to hear about the Peace River region, and that's when his eyes really opened up. Okay, yeah. And uh because this would have been Brooks, you're more familiar with this region than I am, but it's dry land and irrigation. Um, and he came to the peace country. I think someone flew him up to show him the area. I I I think, and you have to remember this was before I was born. So I'm filling these are stories that my dad told me many times, and I and I wish he was here to to to tell me, but uh tell us again. But you know, so I'm I'm filling in some blanks here, but he came up to the peace country, actually started in just south of Peace River in Sean Kote, uh along the highway there. There's that red elevator. That's actually where dad initially started, was uh uh was there, and he started renting purchasing some farmland in that that region as well. Actually, he farmed from Drewville all the way to Deadwood, which is about a about 150 kilometer. Right. It's quite a stretch, yeah. Back in that in the 80s, right? So uh it was quite an interesting story. But uh so this was early 80s. Um all during this time he he was going back to Switzerland to sort of the expectation was that he was going to take over the farm back home. He was he has a couple sisters, but he was the only son who really was interested in the farm or in farming. So the expectation was for him to to come back. Um so he he was he would do his work here, go back to Switzerland, work with his dad there. So he'd be back and forth. And he also, because he was Swiss, he had to go serve in the army. Right. That was the other thing that he had to go back. This would have been early 80s. And and is it one year of duty? Is that the requirement there? I uh you know, I at least, yeah, it was a four year somewhere, yeah. At least and he ended up driving, he became uh drove the tank, became sort of the tank commander for his fleet. Although that's what he told me. I uh well anyway, learned a lot of discipline in the army, of course. Um but then also in the early 80s, that's when he met my mom, okay, Kathy, and that's who um who he met during this time. He you know spoke highly of Canada and that he needed to bring someone back. And uh it didn't take them very long. And I think after six months that they met, um he brought her to Canada to the Peace River, and um and that's where they stayed and and started growing a family. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Kind of a tough time during the 80s, right? To start a farm and and you know, just with interest rates and everything. So maybe just talk a little bit about the challenges that he faced when he when he came over and started.
Speaker 02:Yeah, absolutely. So the 80s was uh really challenging time. I think the 70s were sort of a boom time for for farming, uh lots of investments. But then the 80s came around. Uh I think the commodity prices went down, interest rates started going higher, and there was actually a lot of farmland that was available in the early 80s, right? So that sort of just started taking started uh taking on land, whether it was rented or maybe a few pieces he could buy. Yeah, but it uh it uh it was an opportunity for him to to start growing a land base. But that was a huge amount of risk, right? There was a lot of land available because there wasn't a whole lot of money in farming. Yeah, and all the rest of it. And so dad took on, I would assume, a fair bit of risk. Um, and he he was as affected as anyone as the interest rates started going up, and which was a really challenging time for him, which uh you know lasted for many, many years.
Speaker 01:Yeah. So how did he he manage all of that, right? I mean, uh new family, new area, you're trying to start this farm. Like, you know, do you remember any key decisions he made or things that were strategic or um like how did he keep things afloat?
Speaker 02:Yeah, it's a good good question. I mean, I th I think he was just like uh an eternal optimist. Yeah, really. I don't know if he really had any specific strategies. He just knew that the the farmland in Western Canada and the P, you know, specifically the Peace region was there was tons of opportunity. And he he took on land when no one else would. And and um, you know, and unfortunately it didn't always work out, right? Like we did end up having to relocate from from the Peace River like uh area to where we are now, just so we're sort of restructure some things. Um but he tried again, right? If it didn't work, he he tried again and uh I think learned from his mis from whatever you call them mistakes. I don't know if you would even call that, but opportunities, learning opportunities.
Speaker 00:It's almost like what you and I were talking about yesterday, Devon, where it's like, and when you said he was a turtle optimist, just believing that there's ebbs and flows in it always, especially with farming. And it's like believing in the good, you know, there's especially right now, like so much news that's out, and you could really be down and just thinking that the you know sky is falling and everything's bad. But it's like there is a silver lining and we will go back up. And so I think that's beautiful that you just said your dad was that was his tactic of just believing that it would, you know, come around again and that he was there to try again. Yeah, I think that's really special.
Speaker 04:And I, you know, I didn't know your dad until later, but uh certainly he was uh um, you know, I'd certainly heard of him and sort of uh going against the flow. Uh where you know I was farming, uh, you know, later when you set up again in the Woking Spirit River area, I kind of farmed 20, 30 miles from you guys. I would drive past your crops and kind of past your farm, and it was different, right? You you could see you guys were these are the crazy Swiss kind of doing stuff different, but it was like not crazy in either, right? They'd get they had a fall rye and rye crops when dry years that you were going on moisture from over the winter and and just doing stuff different, right? But you had people talking, and you know, in the 80s there, pretty much you could buy any quarter for 16,000, you know, or a hundred an acre that people were walking away from. And you know, the old consensus of contrary opinion, like Ellie talks about being positive in that, that's good, but you also got to have the tools in your toolbox, right? Um, or it ain't gonna work out. Um, you know, you can go in rose-colored glasses as long as you want, but you better be able to back it up when the rubber hits the road. And you know, from an outsider, I think that's what your dad was able to do. And um, you know, another one is you know, when you get bucked off, get back on. And uh, you know, focus and discipline are big in business, from what I see. And it seemed like uh Leo Meyer was uh the king at that. Like he didn't take his eyes off his goal. I don't know if that makes sense to me.
Speaker 02:No, absolutely super super disciplined in everything, yeah, everything that he did and and and work ethic, right? And maybe some of that even come from the army or uh Well, that's right. I mean, it's sort of Switch, it's sort of a Swiss characteristic to particularness and and and and and discipline and and all of that for sure. And the army too, yeah. That a lot of that comes from from that background.
Speaker 04:I think a big benefit too is we do stuff because of the way our dad did it on the farm or our grandfather, whether it we know was swathing and not straight cutting or whatever. It's just like you drive GM because your dad grew grew, you know. Whereas uh there was no rule book or uh there was no playbook for your dad, eh?
Speaker 02:No, no, well, uh sorry if I might back up quickly on the swathing and straight cutting. That's uh kind of reminds me of a story talking about what brought him through the 80s um and sort of those times. One story that really stuck out to me was uh, you know, he was uh there was challenging times for the whole farming community in the 80s, from what I understand. And um there was a whole bunch of I can't quite remember if it was a bank or it was a number of farmers, but anyways, these farmers didn't have the equipment to harvest their crop, and they were looking for a farmer who who could harvest you know, I don't know, it was thousands of acres of crop. And um they approached my dad because he had the equipment, I think he had five or six massy 860 combines, and um they asked him to harvest this crop um and he did, but one of the things that he did was he he he didn't swath the crop, he wanted to leave it standing back then. Everything was swathed, right? And he he left it standing, but there was an early snowfall that year, and all the swaths weren't being gonna be able to be picked up, but he was out there in this in in in sort of freezing temperatures and combining with these 860 mass season and he he got the whole you know, however many acres it was, it was a lot, especially back then, and he he got he got it all done. Yeah, again, that's sort of saying yes to opportunities, right?
Speaker 03:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 04:Yeah, definitely the 80s. I mean, everybody, I don't nobody was immune from 22% interest, floating rates. I mean, you you really wonder how anybody survived. And you know, misery likes company a bit sometimes too. It was almost like it was Leo Bank. Have you heard Leo, you know, is having troubles too? You know what farmers are like. He was definitely uh part of the talk when you go against the flow, too, right? Uh, so yeah, that was it was interesting times.
Speaker 01:Were there any other unconventional farming practices that he maybe took over from Switzerland that we could talk about?
Speaker 02:I don't know about unconvention like I think he left Switzerland in many ways because I mean he just didn't see the opportunity there. There was some reluctance to change. Um and uh, you know, he he wanted to innovate and there wasn't a lot of yeah, I felt I think he felt he he couldn't do that quite as much there. Um but no, I I would say um uh what he brought over was uh you know the sort of the the environment was a it was a big was really important to dad, making sure to look after the land and and crop diversity and rotation and and seeing value in a forested area or a wetland and not just uh taking taking uh uh just pushing them over. Um I mean we did some of that as well where where it made sense, but he also saw value it in in some of those things that uh that really are you know those those things are being talked about today that hey maybe relieving that tree bluff for beneficial insects is is is a good thing to reduce your insecticide use, right?
Speaker 01:Um international perspective and influence on how farmers approach land ownership.
Speaker 02:Well, I think that's a good question. I I did think of that. Um like the um uh I think Western Canada is like talking about farmland values, right? I think that's probably what drove him to to acquire the land that he did, is because he did see land values in Europe or wherever else were significantly higher. And to him it just didn't make a a whole lot of sense. Why would land prices be so so so much lower back then compared to the production, right? So yeah, I think having that perspective is Yeah. So did that perspective influence his his uh the way he approached things in terms of risk management, would you say um I don't think about the I don't think the international uh aspect it, I think just sort of getting uh having the challenges that he did here helped him understand what the ch the risks are and how to manage that.
Speaker 01:Okay. Yeah. Um kind of want to move on to renting land uh as a foundation for farm growth. So uh many farms, including yours, started rent renting land before expanding. Um, how did your father approach securing land leases in early years?
Speaker 02:So yeah, I I for a long, long time, I think until the mid-2000s, people were asking my dad to rent the land. They didn't have other farmers who were interested. Right. And so boy, times have changed. Yeah, totally, yeah. Right. Um literally, I mean, I remember as a little boy, people would drive into our yard and I said heads would say, Is your dad here? We have we have this land and nobody wants to farm it. Okay, right. And interesting, and my dad always kind of said yes. I know my mom actually had to push some people away because she didn't want any more money. Because dad would never say no. Um, and um so he never really he never went out looking for land and and all that. It's people came to him.
Speaker 01:Were there any challenges with that, with renting that land and balancing sort of short-term agreements with like your long-term planning?
Speaker 02:Well, what happened uh well a thing I remember was um you know, we would rent this land during the hard times and you know, at a a reasonable, a reasonable uh rate, and and we'd have some, we'd have contracts signed, and but then farming got good. And then, you know, there was times when in a neighbor would come and offer two, three times the rental. So so we farmed it during those challenging times, and then uh a neighbor would come in and and unfortunately take it away in some some some circumstances, which is unfortunate. Um, it is what it is, but uh uh I guess that would be uh a challenge that did it did occur, um, which is fine. Um, there was probably a time when we we did farm too many acres, right? And your spread too thin, and and uh uh because of that eternal optimism, it it uh it it it became a lot, right? It's a lot of it was a lot of land. We had land from Leglasse to all the way to Blueberry Mountains, so it's it was a it was a a long ways to to travel and it's just a lot to a lot to manage, right?
Speaker 04:So yeah, you've also had some really long-term relationships with landlords that way that you still have to do that.
Speaker 02:So that's a really good good point. And a lot of where we when we moved to to Woking, where we are now, uh when he initially a lot of that was investor land, people who bought it from the bank, yeah. Uh people from overseas who bought it, wanted someone to manage it. Again, they didn't have anyone back then. They had this land, but no one wanted to farm it. And dad would come and uh basically manage it, but he didn't own it, he he rented it. And I know there's one specific piece, so you might know that that moor place. Yeah, and that's where dad they just rented that house for quite a few years, but this beautiful section of land that's sort of up in the hills. And and I know dad said, Well, could we buy this? And the the the guy who owned it said you would never sell it. Well, a few years later, some things changed, and he did end up selling it, and we were able to buy it. But uh yeah, so we had excellent relationships with with with with many of our renters. Um and we still do now, like we still rent a good part of our our our farm. In fact, some of the land we rent now we used to actually own, but again, through some challenges that were were faced, we had to sell some and we uh rent it back. And it's um it works fine. It's an excellent, we have a good relationship with that, and it's a good way to to to to run our farm. And from a cash flow perspective, it might it might make more sense to rent that.
Speaker 01:I was just gonna ask in terms of having that flexibility when you want to make a change, right?
Speaker 02:Abs absolutely, yeah. I mean, uh to buy a quarter versus renting a quarter, really financially it might might, you know, when you look at the interest rates, uh renting uh makes more sense. But that doesn't mean we want to uh you have to be strategic on your your land purchases too, right? Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 01:Yeah. One thing we definitely want to talk to you about was um your your dad was ahead of his time when it came to growing winter cereals, yeah. Right. So we Ali and Mike and I were all listen or reading uh an interesting article this morning, talked about just that. Um, you know, maybe talk a bit about that and kind of what led him to experimenting with those crops.
Speaker 02:Yeah, no, that's a great question. It's a huge part of our farm, is the winter winter cereals. And a lot of these things, uh, the innovation, it weren't really um they they came out of necessity, I would say, right? It'd be there was a problem. He thought of and these were really solutions. So the winter cereals started really wet because where we're located, we're sort of in the hills, we have some variability in weather. The snow can stay around a little bit later in the spring. We can get frost earlier on in the fall, or even it can it can have snow there while further down, a few miles away, there's there's no snow. So that caused issues where we had issues planting in the spring. It was too wet, or it got delayed, and we were planting crop late, or on the fall time we weren't getting the crop off, or it was getting rained on and poor quality. So we started growing winter crops to start managing that risk, getting a good proportion of our farm seeded in the in the fall, which uh took a lot of pressure off in the spring for seeding, helping us do a better job on our spring, spring-seeded crops like canola. And and then also in the fall time again, we were able to start harvest a few weeks earlier, and and uh which is really really beneficial, which also spreads out our equipment, right? So you can usually run one less combine, uh, you're you're doing a better job of seeding and getting things in timely, which is super important for for, especially here in the Peace River region. Um but um so so those things uh were really the drivers behind that. And today it's a it's a huge part of our farm. About 20% of our acres are are winter cereals, primarily winter wheat, and then uh fall rye, um, which are still continue to be a very important part of our farm.
Speaker 01:We were chatting this morning, like I said, and and we were just really curious about what were some of the challenges logistically in in seeding in September and and harvest is going on. You know what I mean? Like, do you do you spread yourself a bit thin sometimes?
Speaker 02:I think when you initially start, yes, it's sort of a mindset change. You're like, well, uh, we should be um seeding, and that's what a lot of farmers probably struggle with who because winter cereals are still a pretty small acreage here. And um, but really it's about changing your mindset, right? Being prepared for that you're gonna be doing that. So we know the first two weeks we're gonna be seeding, and we better have the fertilizer in the bins, we better have the seed lined up, we better, you know, the drills better be ready uh uh end of end of July before we start combining, yeah. Um, and and and ready to go. So for us, uh and then the other factor is you know, in those first couple weeks, you really have a kind of a two, maybe three-week window to get your winter cereals in. And almost every year you sort of do have a bit of a break where you're waiting a few days for for uh for the next crop to be ready, or it might be a little bit wet in the morning, so you go seeding and and with the the air seeders now you can get a lot of acre seeded in in a few days, right? So um it's just about being prepared, but that took a few years to learn, right? And now you kind of understand the workflow and how that's absolutely, yeah. And we learned about how to how to grow it, right? There's probably a few years where we seeded it maybe a bit late, or maybe even a bit too early. So we've really found that sweet spot where it works fantastic, right?
Speaker 01:But that's um kind of trial and error. Again, yeah, it's it's it's a pretty small window, right? In terms of the seeding and it it is, yeah.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Um to to do a good job because you can plant it too early, and we've done that where you quote sort of let's get it done before harvest really takes off, where we have some summer fallow fields that weren't seeded in the spring. But then the problem there is uh the elk and deer really like it in the winter and graze on it. So yeah, there is a uh a window there that is optimum. Okay.
Speaker 01:Um what lessons did your dad pass down about the importance of diversifying crops and looking for niche market opportunities? Anything else that you can talk about there?
Speaker 02:Oh, it's all about risk management risk management, yeah. Okay. Um, I mean we've had uh we've had actually really since he passed away in 2020, we've had pretty good harvests and pretty good seeding season. It hasn't been that wet. So, like, well, you know, not that we're at all thinking about changing anything, but we've seen those years where it's challenging. And he he reminded us that it can change and it most likely will. We will have a uh a wet spring or a late harvest or a snowed on crop, and just like don't forget about that, right? Because that can happen very quick and really affect your farm for sure.
Speaker 01:Um obviously your dad was an innovator and a forward thinker, and so how has that influenced you and your siblings and how do you guys kind of apply that to the farm today? Is there anything you're you're always looking at and thinking about? Oh yeah.
Speaker 02:Um so dad engaged us from a very young age uh on the farm. He um he always kind of made us think big picture. Um we're we're always uh looking for innovative uh things to to bring onto the farm. I mean things are changing so quick right now, especially on the technology side. The things that we're gonna innovate on are gonna be different than what dad innovated on. I'm thinking about artificial intelligence, stuff like that, things I don't really know much about yet right now, but I think we're gonna have to understand um pretty quick, you know, sort of play around with things like that. Um, those are just and it's just an example. Um But um yeah, our focus also has been just to kind of continue to to build and improve on what dad uh did, right? And and not make too many quick changes, right? Uh right. Uh because we we've made some improvements and I think the farm's going well. Um but yeah, you just kinda you want to you want to build on that and and and make tweaks here and there and and start incorporating things on your farm. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Um Roy, we were chatting earlier about uh you know people making decisions that might have been perceived as crazy and and sometimes that's the right path to follow. Was there a time for you, Jesse, where your dad maybe went against conventional wisdom and and it paid off for him? Like is there a story you can tell us or an example?
Speaker 02:Yeah, it I was thinking about this question, and I don't know if I can think of anything specifically. I I it it has sort of has to do with farmland um and and acquiring it when very few other people would. Um unfortunately one thing that's a little bit unfortunate is the timing of his uh the acquisition of the land was a little bit at the wrong time, right? So you you started buying in the 80s, really farming really didn't get good until 2008, right? That's when we started to see the increase in farmland, and that's when there was really uh uh an interest. And unfortunately, there were some challenging times in there where we had to restructure and and do some different things. Um, but that's all part of it. We have a we have a great farm now that you know we're proud to that supports me, my brother, you know, our siblings, and that we can continue to grow on for my kids, George and Phoebe. And that's all because of my my dad and my mom, right? And and what they did.
Speaker 04:So from the outside, uh Jesse, you know, what I saw your dad do, and I wondered sometimes if it wasn't his you know, Swiss or international perspective, but he was more macro than micro. And you know, old school the wheat board, I think, didn't do any favors to a lot of farmers. It would be similar, you know, if you were an artist and you were an awesome artist and you did art and then just put it up by the road and hope somebody bought it or something, right? You there was a total disconnect with marketing. And uh you could be uh, you know, there was a lot of extremely good farmers that had zero interest or um zero experience in marketing because the wheat board was there. And uh that's just part of it is growing a crop, you know, is what people realize now, uh, you know, since the wheat board's gone in that. Your dad was way ahead of the curve there, uh, you know, as another farmer um uh watching that. I mean, this guy was finding markets nobody knew existed. And um, you know, he was finishing it off. Um, so that he really stood out. I think he stood out to area farmers, you know. Uh Ted Menzi's, you know, one of the most well-respected um farmers in Western Canada. I think uh five-time MP from South of Calgary. You know, we sold his farm during COVID. And um, yeah, he he put your dad right up there on the list of innovators. You know, just don't grow the crop, finish it off. It's uh the what you get is a function of uh, you know, the end price. It's uh got nothing to do with uh the bushels, right? Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 02:No, you're absolutely right, Dora. I appreciate sort of the outside perspective. Sometimes when I grow up in there, I I I appreciate your uh your thoughts on this. That actually that was probably his my biggest pride was sort of the marketing of the grain. Um and he he knew he grew he was growing a commodity wheat and canola and and whatever else. But he also ingrained on in us that it's not it's a food, right? And it's a product, and and and and and uh and the markets um so he sold to the grain elevators, local grain elevators, but he was also selling and and and and driving his product to various places across Western Canada. Um yeah, and that's because and and a lot of those things came out of challenges too, right? So um, you know, a couple times the rails weren't shipping grain, so he decided to start the truck and and drive it himself down the road, and we were driving grain as far as Vancouver Island. Uh, and and and for him, he took a lot of pride in that. Um because it well, the product, but you know, he also knew that the relationships with those people on the other side was was really important as well. Um and I and I think uh I'm not sure if this is specifically to the question, but his greatest strength was his his his ability to create those relationships with or one of his. Biggest strengths I look back on was his the relationships that he had with with his people he sold grain to. But everyone along the way, the people he bought equipment from or chemical from, that was really ingrained into us. So that's really important. And he actually, like, and I think back, maybe I'm going uh somewhere totally different here now, but uh go for it. No, go that's what we're here for. We're here for the stories. Talking about succession, and uh I remember being a little boy, like four, five, six years old, and he would take us to those meetings with uh with the John Deere dealership or the the chemical supplier or even the bank or whoever, and and he made an effort to like you know, shake that person's hand and say hello, introduce yourself. And uh he uh he made sure that we as we got older that we had those relationships too with those those people.
Speaker 04:He was like Elon Musk taking the kid to the oval. Exactly. You were ahead of you were ahead of your time, man.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Oh yeah, uh dad was like really doing that. I remember one time uh we went to Winnipeg. Dad was on a lot of boards and and uh industry groups, but it was one time we went to Winnipeg to the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange, at some sort of wine and cheese event. Uh a whole bunch of people, I didn't, I mean I was four years old or something. And dad was talking to everyone, and anyways, I ended up just going to sleep on the trading floor. I just fell asleep on the ground. But uh but, anyways, he yeah, he included us in in all of that stuff, which uh really we know that now is really important in the in any business, um, but in farming as well, right? They're people and relationships and yeah, I know that too.
Speaker 00:Maybe uh you want to touch on because you briefly did the the relationships. I know your dad, we've kind of talked about it, really valued the people who believed in him, especially when it was tough times, and he didn't forget those relations when times got better and maybe there was other options out there. He he still utilized those relationships and valued that, like I said, they believed in him when no one else would.
Speaker 02:Oh, 100%. There's uh there's some examples and they're pretty personal, but uh there's times when uh you know dad, you know, whatever, he didn't get the crop harvested, you know, and because of snow or whatever, and um things got hard for him and you know he had bills to pay, and uh uh people were you know whatever owed money and and and he would work with them and he paid everything back, but but uh but um I don't know what one specific with the fertilizer retail. We had to uh dad spent I think just back and forth hauling fertilizer. That's how he could pay and uh and to this day we work with that retail, we won't go anywhere else. Yeah, that's the story I was thinking about.
Speaker 03:I remember that.
Speaker 02:Yeah, and we uh we don't for he never forgot that, right? And us as kids, and he made sure we know that too, and we understood that, and we still do, and we carry those relationships on too. Because that's um you can go somewhere else and find something cheaper or jump from place to place and it might be good today, but in the long term, all that doesn't uh doesn't pay, you know, doesn't pay off because it's at the end it's your name, it's your reputation, your integrity. And yeah, when times get tough, you hope that those people stay with you and work work together with you, and that's uh really, really important. He ingrained that in us. Yeah.
Speaker 04:I think sometimes too there, you know, get off the couch and go do it differently, and things fall into place a bit, like talking about fertilizer backhaul. I remember talking to him, and he'd be in his truck on the Yellowhead, you know, Jasper or you know, down um uh by Kamloops, and he'd be hauling down into the lower mainland. You know, your uh was that I don't know if that was oats or that was wheat, yeah.
Speaker 02:Wheat mainly, primarily.
Speaker 04:And then, but then beyond he'd pick up the fertilizer haul on the back haul before he came home. You know, he'd talk to him sometimes and he'd be on the highway by Edson or whatever, going to grab fertilizer, right? And it's like, okay, he had the idea for the wheat first, but then he wanted to add another layer to it, right? And um, yeah, it's just doing something, right? He was a king at that.
Speaker 02:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 04:He said just he yeah, he it was just important for him to just kind of keep keep doing things, yeah. Yeah so was that milling wheat then he was selling down in uh lower mainland there sometimes?
Speaker 02:Um some of it was. Uh the primary market was uh it it was uh a feed market that we had, or we still have, we're still shipping down into that area, and uh but uh um and that started 20 and 13, 14 when the rail the rails quit moving. I think it was sort of some some sort of issue. There's some there's quite a few of them, but grain wasn't being moved, and and on the other end in the lower mainland, they weren't getting grain either. So it wasn't just farmers being affected, but it was a consumer on the other end that wasn't getting product, and they had their customers to service and uh and so they connected with through my dad's connection somehow. Uh asked if if we would be interested in hauling down there, and I think dad did his first load, wasn't quite sure how it would work out, and uh you know, we've hauled thousands of loads down in there, primarily my dad and my brother and I would jump in a truck and we'd have some custom hauled as well. But um, yeah, that's that's how some of those things come about, right? Yeah.
Speaker 01:I just want to go back to the point about you know your dad engaging you guys early on. How important was that for you? And and did it impact your career choices and and your love of farming? And and do you find yourself kind of doing the same thing with your own kids now?
Speaker 02:Oh, yeah. I've been I'm a farmer full-time now, so I don't know if I would have had a choice for sure. No, so yeah, I got uh so it's not just me also here on this farm. It's my you know got my brother Sammy. Sammy and I run the farm together and do the day-to-day management. I've got a sister who's a high-level manager with uh Cargill. Uh, we've got a brother in Australia who's a who's in the grain industry, yeah, trades a has a done very well over there. Um and so we're all in agriculture in one way or another. And uh yeah, the dad, I I remember going to meetings, you know, again as a little boy. I don't know why what I was doing at meetings, but uh and my dad would have these debates with people, and uh they would challenge my dad, like, why would you want your kids to farm? It's it's it's a hard way to make a living, right? I remember like pretty clearly people saying that. Um my dad would always like stand pretty proudly. He's like, no, like not exactly sure what he said, but yeah, he would defend his choice in engaging us on the farm. Totally. And um yeah, I mean, we're still figuring this story out and how it's all we got we're we're still relatively young. I'm 33. I've been farming for 15 years, but uh you know, we got this amazing farm that we can make a living on. I'm building a house right now for my for my wife and I are building a house on the farm. Pretty fortunate to do all of that, and that's because of what you know, dad encouraged us to farm and saw the opportunity, which uh it is. I mean, we're seeing land values have gone up significantly. We've had a f uh uh quite a few good years here and uh with commodity prices. We'll see what the future brings, but we're gonna take it as it comes, right? There's a lot of changes happening right now, but yeah, he uh he engaged us and again stayed really positive about the industry and and saw the potential that it had.
Speaker 01:That was probably beneficial for you too, to see that well to first to hear that there are challenges that farming isn't easy, right? Like I just think to hear that at a young age, so you don't have this sort of romantic idea that it's all fun and games, and it is hard work. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 02:And um we so we saw the challenges that we had, and we probably personally me, I learned more from the mistakes or for the issues that we had than the successes that we've had in the last number of years. So um uh and and it keeps me grounded as well, not to think that uh things are good just because of the decisions I make. I mean, that's really important, but uh there's also you have to uh just keep be mindful of all that stuff, right? So yeah. So I think there's a few different parts to succession. I think uh we lots of times think about ownership, which is of course really important, but there's all this other side, which is probably more important, is the management of the farm, right? It's not just ownership, it it's uh yeah, knowing how to run a farm. That's like that's actually the hard part, I I think. And and and dad did an excellent job uh in doing that and and making sure that we could make decisions pretty early on. And he let us make mistakes too, and I learned from them uh pretty quickly. Uh but yeah, the ownership uh person on our farm, we're actually going through this right now is how to set up our farm structure moving forward for my like my siblings and next generation. So we're working through that right now, personally.
Speaker 04:Um yeah Yeah, it's two totally different things. One is the asset that appreciates in value, and the other one is to try and generate income off that asset. Um, and there are two totally different hats here um that I see. One's the management, the other one's the ownership. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 00:I'm uh just so proud of you guys, though, for having that discussion now. I think it's something that we don't see much of usually when they come to us or you know, me at the law firm for a will, or you know, mom and dad are in their 80s, and it's like, oh, we uh we haven't had this discussion because it's a tough one, and it's we're just gonna leave you know all the land to the to the kids equally and everyone will be happy. And it's oh, it breaks my heart when I have that because I just immediately know that you know a farm is not an economical unit if you just give all the land equally to all the kids, and depending on how they're added on title, you know, it could be you and your siblings as tenants in common, and then you know, you leave your share to George and Phoebe, and then you know, your siblings are on title with their nieces and nephew, and it's like, well, now what is happening? And it's it's totally broke the farm, and you have siblings that aren't talking, and so it's all about you know, choosing your hard and it's the conversations now sometimes might be really hard, but like, what are your expectations? How are we gonna make this work? But it's gonna be harder as your kids get older and as your siblings have more kids, and it just gets a lot more complicated. And so I think, like I said, I'm I'm so proud that you guys are having these talks now uh because it's it's really rare and it's a huge decision and it's complicated, and a lot of people don't know how to do it, you know. No fault of other lawyers or anything, but it's you know, sometimes they'll go to a firm and get a will done and they don't understand farms and they just think, yeah, it makes sense to leave all the land to all your kids. That's you know fair and that's all good, and then I get it. And you know, usually mom and dad have passed away at that point, and I just see the one kid that's actually put sweat equity in and farming it, and it's I know what's gonna happen to that farm, and it's not pretty. Um, and so there is a lot of planning that needs to go into that, and it's it's not just a gift that should be secretive. You know, sometimes even I've seen where a young kid's farming and grandparents still own the majority of the land base, and it's like, don't assume you know what's in your grandparents' will, because you know, it it might be to you, but it might also be to your you know, uncles and aunts. And then again, you don't have an economical unit. So it might be tough to just say, you know, I don't expect the farm by any means, but I need to know so I can plan my own future about how this is gonna go, you know, if it is gonna go to my aunts and uncles, I need to know that now so that I can be looking at land elsewhere without that expectation, um, you know, because that just sets you up for disappointment down the road, I think. And something that I'm really proud that we like to do is we, you know, love the family farm and to hear stories like yours, Jesse, and to see farms continue on uh for generations. And it's like what's fair isn't always what's equal, is what we say, especially with farms, you know, where some kids put more sweat equity in. So there are unique things that you can do, whether it's you know, adding the non-family or farming kids onto title with a personal mortgage, um, so that you know, kids that are farming, you don't have to just pay your siblings a lump sum outright. And then again, you you know, that affects cash flow and everything. So there are a lot of really unique strategies, and every farm is different. And so I think um it's just important to have those conversations up front so that you know you guys can carry on your dad's legacy.
Speaker 02:Yeah, that's and but that that's what we're trying to sort out right now, too, right? And we we're we're working with people who are are guiding us through this process and um yeah, just trying to be open with each other and and trying to to know um what each of us wants.
Speaker 04:Um your dad died suddenly. You probably I imagine he thought he was gonna be there till 95. I think so, yeah.
Speaker 02:I think he just got doctor checkup and he said he was he said he was like a 20-year-old, but uh so hazy.
Speaker 04:It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, you don't know. I don't imagine you had the discussion with him in advance because he was just gonna be, he was just starting to have fun, probably.
Speaker 02:Well, I could tell he was he was a lot more relaxed the last few years, and uh our approach. I mean, we were always a team, but the last few years was really becoming a team approach. I also began to understand some of the decisions he was making, where before I would maybe get more upset with him. And unfortunately, you know, the last I remember the last year was 2020. We had a really wet spring. Uh, the year before a lot of the peace country didn't get harvested, and the spring was really wet, so we were still harvesting and seeding, and then it just kept raining in June and and a lot of the crop got flooded out. And you know, and I look back at that, I'm like, well, we kind of did everything that we could have, right? And and it still didn't quite, there was still things that were out of our control. And and before I probably would have been upset with that and said we should have done this differently and that differently, but it was in my late 20s when I realized, yeah, okay, yeah, you know, there are things that do happen, right? Um, but yeah, I I I wish there was some more. I'm not I don't want to sit here and say everything was uh we have everything figured out on succession, and there was probably a lot of conversations I wish we did have with that and sort some more things out um on the ownership uh structure. Um but that's that's how it is, and uh and that's what we're working on totally together, yeah.
Speaker 00:Yeah, and I think that something I learned from you kind of while you're navigating this is just like asking those expectations of everyone, you know, what do you expect from this farm? Are you expecting a share of it? Um, are you not? Because sometimes that's a you know, sometimes one of the siblings actually isn't expecting anything. So so why give them, you know, a fifth or a quarter of it? Um, so that's just a really good question, I think, to get to get started.
Speaker 02:Yeah, no, it's great. Yeah. And and you know, mom is still here and she's instrumental in all of this, right? And I think you've had conversations with mom about some of this, and she's pretty passionate about it. Um so yeah, no, those are really good points.
Speaker 01:I I wanted to go back a bit to your dad's off-farm ventures. He was obviously involved involves a lot of ag boards at the provincial and national level. And you know, how did that shape your understanding of the the landscape, the industry in general?
Speaker 02:Yeah, that was really important for him pretty early on to be involved in the industry. And I think a lot of it started from he just he wanted to gain knowledge and a perspective and an understanding of how things worked and and get to know people. I think that's how how a lot of it started. And and to think bigger picture, yeah. Like you said, Roy, dad thought big picture was really thinking four, five, six years ahead in many, in many ways, right? So being part of these boards, he was able to to uh to understand maybe what was coming and would affect his farm. Um, and then also to offer input on on his thoughts on what the future may bring. Um and uh and then uh a lot of this evolved, like actually Roy pointed it out was the Canadian wheat board, he and the market the market freedom. He he wanted to market a lot of more of his own grain, um, and he started to really get involved in in a lot of that uh and was part of the Western Wheat Growers Association, one of the the starters there. I think that's where he might have been with Ted. I think for sure. Yeah, and uh and then that uh and you know Sammy and myself are on those boards here today, too. Uh Sammy's on the Alberta Pulse board, and I'm on the Alberta Grains. And um because actually there's not very many, you go to these meetings, not very many farmers there, but you know, it's sort of important to have people that are doing that work to help shape the agriculture industry and yeah, and make sure that farmers have a voice on a federal or provincial level and and uh and just to be engaged, and again, like to know what's coming and to to sort of get outside of your own farm and understand sort of the big pigotry issues that will affect your your business.
Speaker 01:Yeah, you probably already answered my question, but does your involvement of those boards sort of guide the management of your farm a little bit?
Speaker 02:Oh, um for sure. Uh it's our way of I I don't know if it has a big impact on our management of our farm, but I think it's also important to be to get off the farm like for different perspectives. Yeah, like for my brother and I to uh to to to learn from other individuals, to and then yeah, again, you you you can uh if you're not involved and are staying up to date with what's going on, you can get left behind pretty quick and things can uh become a pretty quick big surprise pretty quickly, right? Whatever that might be. So yeah, just sort of staying engaged is is important in any business, I think. But um for us it's really important.
Speaker 01:What do you think your father would be most proud of when looking at the farm today?
Speaker 02:Yeah, a few things. Um I think we have in straight away from what he's built too much, right? We we s we f follow the values that he he's created, integrity, you know, environmental stewardship, um, relationships, all of that is is really important. Um you know, crop rotation. And and we've uh we've just sort of continued to build on what he what he started and and in in many ways is sort of like the next generation does, makes the improvements and might right, and and I think we've uh done done a better, uh a really good job of that. Um we haven't actually acquired a lot of land, we actually have less land than we've had. You mentioned that to me, yeah. Yeah, we actually have less land than we've ever farmed. Um, but we're probably producing as much or more just because we're really m uh focusing on every acre and optimizing the farmland that we do have, right? Doing land improvements and things like that. So I think he'd be proud of that. Uh and then the fact that we're working together as a family is probably the thing that he's most proud of. And uh, you know, we got a I got incredible siblings. I got uh uh my brother Sammy who's uh uh works on the farm excellent and with equipment and operations, understands, loves farming is more than anyone I know. I got a sister, Tracy, who's uh incredible with financials and understands crop inputs and and agronomy really well. And I got a brother in Australia who knows the grain, grain business and keeps sending Australian workers over to help on our farm. Um so yeah, I I I think for him, uh I think he'd be proud of that we're working working together. I mean, we've got things that we're we've got to sort out like any family farm does. Um and and we but we want to continue to grow the business as a as a farm, I would say. Um yeah, the challenge is gonna continue to grow and look for a bigger land base because when you have three, four people or fat, and then you got families coming in, you need to grow the business. And you know, the initial thought is yeah, we need more farmland, which I would would uh of course we're we're looking for, but we also don't want to make a forced decision there. There's other ways to grow our business too, right? So creating creating more revenue, maybe looking at other businesses that are on with agriculture or farming that will build on our strengths. So yeah, a lot of that we're still working on right now, right? I mean it's it's only been four and a half years since dad passed away, so yeah, yeah. We gotta remind ourselves we've come uh uh pretty proud of uh the family and the farm, and I think we've done a good job. Um, but there's a lot we were we're still working through and and figuring out, right?
Speaker 01:So for sure. Yeah uh last question for you is there one lesson from his journey that farmers should maybe take to heart or that you've taken to heart?
Speaker 02:Uh I saw that the challenges my mom and dad faced with the farming and the ups and downs, and and I think just like trying again and just being optimistic and and finding solutions to to problems, right? Uh but I think that's what he really ingrained into us.
unknown:Okay.
Speaker 01:Excellent. Well, Jesse, thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate your time. It's been a pleasure to talk to you and hear about your dad's story and more about the farm.
Speaker 02:Yeah, thank you for having me. It's uh pretty personal and uh but um I hope I did an okay job sharing it. And it's an honor to be on here with you guys. So yeah.
Speaker 01:Thanks for doing much. Yeah. Thanks, Jesse, very much. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Okay, well, that's gonna do it for another edition of the Farmland Exchange Podcast. Thank you very much for tuning in and supporting the show. Uh, if you have any questions or if you want to submit new topics for us to discuss on the show, send us an email, info at clbid.com or give us a call, 866-263-7480. You can also visit the page on our website, cl bid.com slash farmland exchange. There's more information there, past episodes, all that kind of good stuff. Um, if you can, if you haven't already, subscribe to the podcast, leave a five star review if you enjoy the content you've heard here today. It helps us get found amongst the other platforms. That's it for now. Thank you for tuning in. I hope this has been a positive exchange for you. Take care.
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