Current State of the Cattle Industry in Canada Feat. Travis Toews
The Farmland Exchange the official podcast of CLHbid. com Expert insights on buying and selling farmland in Western Canada.
Devon Davidson:Welcome back to the Farmland Exchange podcast, the official podcast of CLHbid. com. I'm Devon Davidson, your host and digital media strategist for CLHbid. com. Strategist for CLHbid. com. Today we've got a special episode lined up for you. We're really excited to bring on Travis Toews, former finance minister for Alberta and president of the Canadian Cattle Commission, to talk to us about the ever-evolving cattle industry here in Canada. Travis, it's not every day that we get an opportunity to talk to him out of your stature, so thank you for joining us. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here, Devon. Yeah, we're excited to have you and Roy Carter, ceo of cohspincom. Thank you for being here again as well. Thanks, Devon.
Roy Carter:And special thanks to Travis for making the time. Yeah, absolutely.
Devon Davidson:Before we get rolling, I always got to ask our listeners please take a minute to subscribe and to leave a review on your podcast platform of choice. It does help our content get found and for other listeners to find us. Travis, before we dive into today's topic, maybe just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, Maybe a bit about where you're from and your professional background.
Roy Carter:Oh wow.
Travis Toews:Well, I'll be really brief. I'm a lifelong Albertan and, other than some time spent out of the area for education and again um four or five years in politics, we've been really permanent residents of the peace country and and really privileged to be here. Um, my wife and I have, uh, three children and 12 grandchildren, oh, wow, and um, you know, and and we've been privileged to be in agriculture Um, our kind of our primary business. One of our businesses is a cattle ranching operation and that operation is near and dear to me. It was started by my folks who did the heavy lifting, as so many first generation, of course people do, and we've been the benefactors of that. And we have our, um, you know we've got some children involved, uh in behind us too.
Devon Davidson:So, uh, again, um, really privileged that's excellent, yeah, um, maybe tell us a bit more about your ranch. I mean just uh, give us some details there for us oh, you know what?
Travis Toews:um, again, second generation operation. We're a cow calf operation. We background our calves, um, take them to grass typically take them to grass and uh and and sell them off of grass. That's where we found we're competitive. Yeah and um, and it's. You know, we've been in the business through the ups and downs. Uh, my folks started in 1961 and right now it's a great time to be in the cattle business absolutely yeah, um sorry, go ahead and ranch in two provinces, both Alberta and across in BC right.
Travis Toews:We do. Our headquarters are in Alberta, for sure, and our roots are in Alberta, but we do have a BC side, and so we burn a bit of diesel, move cattle back and forth, and it's been a good fit, good.
Devon Davidson:And so retired from politics, correct?
Travis Toews:I am. It was a great privilege to serve the constituents of Grand Prairie, wapiti so many of friends and neighbors and great people and it was a great privilege to serve Albertans broadly as their Minister of Finance, president of the Treasury Board. It felt meaningful during those years and so it was great then, and it's great to be back, okay excellent.
Devon Davidson:So diving into cattle, we want to talk a little bit about your role as president of the Canadian Cattle Commission. What was your overall experience like in that role?
Travis Toews:Well, it was a role of significance. It really felt like it was a meaningful time to serve in leadership. Of course, for those in the cattle industry, we all know that in 2003, we discovered a case of BSE and that resulted in all of our international borders being closed and really a huge emergency challenge in the cattle beef industry in Canada and we worked for about 10 years to reestablish international trade, and so that was a big part of the effort, even when I was president. It started much before that, but it blurred into the time that I was president. Of course, I was vice president before I was president. I was the chair of the Foreign Trade Committee prior to being vice president, so there was probably six or eight years where I was involved.
Travis Toews:During that time we also dealt with the country of origin labeling issue, regulatory, discriminatory regulatory approach, legislative approach by the US at the time, and so we took we in Mexico, we were co-complainants we took the US to the WTO court in Geneva and I was on the legal working group. We were successful in our case, we were successful in the appeal and we were ultimately successful in our advocacy in that we observed, witnessed US Congress repealing the law, but it was a long time, it was about a six year um event. And so for those, for those folks who things well, you know what um there's great quick remedies at the WTO. Those are long, hard levers to pull, but we were thankful that there was a remedy at the end.
Devon Davidson:That's sort of a nice segue into my next question, which was what was your biggest achievement in that role? Would you say that that was?
Travis Toews:Well, you know, I think, look, I will share those achievements with many others.
Roy Carter:Of course.
Travis Toews:You know predecessors before me, key executive staff, my board, provincial organizations, but for sure, seeing the repeal of COOL was a big deal, I think, for cattle industry. Leadership for a decade and ultimately recovering global market access for the Canadian beef industry was just huge. And it was a long, long road. I was also involved in a WTO case against the Koreans because they were using non-tariff trade barriers at the time following BSE to keep Canadian beef out. We were successful there as well. So all of that, you know, felt very meaningful.
Travis Toews:Idea I worked to do, at least during my tenure as president of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, was to continue to try to keep the industry independent of government. We went through a hard time as an industry and there's such a tendency then to look to government for solutions, and I can say this from experience Every time government invests a dollar in your industry, they take back an equivalent amount of control or they want to, and we were an industry that prided itself on being independent, resourceful, self-responsible, and so I felt that during my tenure I also had a real responsibility to travel the country and ensure that we remain an industry that was independent and resourceful and ultimately market driven, Interesting.
Devon Davidson:Were there any lessons you learned from that role that you kind of now apply to your day-to-day operations on your ranch?
Travis Toews:Well, I, you know, I I certainly during those years. It's it the lesson of preparing yourself and your business to be resilient, I think is critical, and during my tenure as Minister of Finance in Alberta, that was a lesson that was so important. Because, whether it's a business, a household, an industry or a government, setting yourself up for resiliency is critical. That means having a reasonably strong balance sheet, that means managing the risks. You can manage all the things, and so that was certainly a lesson that I learned.
Devon Davidson:Well, Roy, you could probably speak to that a little bit too.
Roy Carter:Yeah, I think the taxpayers of Alberta certainly benefited from Travis not being a career politician, being the real deal and knows what happens when the rubber hits the road, and his ag background, his down-to-earth approach to solving solutions, totally so I think everybody, as Albertans, says thanks from that point of view.
Devon Davidson:Absolutely Okay. So the next topic we wanted to jump into was herd sizes in Canada and the US. I know, Travis, you had mentioned that in a previous conversation with us. What trends have you noticed with regards to herd size in Canada and the US, and what factors play in terms of that?
Travis Toews:Sure, that's a great question. We've seen right now. I believe our numbers in early 2025 in Canada would show that we have about 3.4 million beef cows in Canada and that's down significantly from we peaked in 2005. Of course that was following BSE, when we had trouble moving cows, so we were close to 5.5 million at that time. We were, we had a big, big herd and so we've seen a steady decline. It's not been linear, but but a steady decline in in herd size and um. And we've seen the same in the U S. The U S right now their herd, their mother cow herd, is around 28 million Um. So Canada is about 11% of the total beef cow herd in North America, but the US numbers are the lowest they've been in 73 years. So we're seeing again low seed stock numbers in North America, which is positive if you're in the cow business, for sure. Maybe not as positive if you love to buy a steak at the keg.
Devon Davidson:For sure. What would you say? Your long-term outlook is on herd size in North America.
Travis Toews:Well, you know, I think there's a debate over trends, right, and I know Royal have something to say about that. But you know, I think one of probably one of the biggest impacts on the trend to kind of a continually declining mother cow herd in North America is land use competition. And you know, we've seen a really strong grains and oilseed sector here in the Canadian prairies in the last probably 10, 15 years, and so, you know, every acre acre, there's competition for every acre, right, and I think the grains and oil seeds um operations have been winning that, um, you know, winning that competition in most cases. So, uh, you know, is that going to change? Uh, I'll be interested in Roy's views around that. Absolutely, um, you know, I, I, I think, you know, certainly the balance of power might start to shift. So, yeah, right.
Roy Carter:And I think we are probably starting to see it the balance of power Margins for the grain guys aren't there anymore. Input costs have have really escalated and they're starting to realize not that they didn't before, but their cost of inputs on marginal land are probably great or greater than their good land. And a lot of them have brought on some of the marginal land and are starting to, I think, rethink the math there. And you know a lot of them realize that maybe on canola it's the last five bushels that is the profit. And you know you'll talk to appraisers and people will say well, that quarter will give you 20% more than the other one, so it must be worth 20% more.
Roy Carter:I'm sure Travis, from his accounting background, knows the answer. There is no. The bad one might be worth zero. And you know my dad I always used to say at the kitchen table and I was a little kid I didn't quite understand it, but he'd often say you can never pay too much for good land and too little for poor land, too little for poor land. And I think they're starting to see that and we're actually getting some calls about you know, maybe I'm going to get rid of this marginal stuff. What do you think it's worth? And it's probably the cattle guys that are on from that point of view.
Devon Davidson:Interesting. You alluded to it already in terms of beef prices, but are we seeing a new baseline for beef prices, given production costs for beef?
Travis Toews:Yeah, well, you know, commodity markets rise and they fall, and so we're seeing, you know, record prices right now in the cattle industry, and I don't have any illusion that these are going to be permanent.
Travis Toews:And again, I think you talk about resiliency. I think that wise operations right now are strengthening their balance sheet during times like this, and that will be important because the price will come down. However, in commodity markets, very typically when you've seen a run-up in price like this, the new baseline is higher than the previous baseline, and the reason for that, of course, is that the prices required to incentivize the increased production that ultimately satisfies the demand and results in lower prices again, the cost structure of that incremental production is higher than it was before, and so ultimately, you'll see more price sensitivity on the supply side at higher prices than you would have maybe five years ago, which will ultimately result in a higher baseline than it used to be. However, we know that at some point in time, the North American industry will ultimately produce more product than what consumers are willing to take away, and it will result in lower prices.
Devon Davidson:Okay, Roy. Any other thoughts on that?
Roy Carter:No, I totally agree with that. I would be interested in Travis's comment on the size of the cow-calf operations. I read an article that 61% of the Canadian cattle operations have less than 50 head. But they only produce 16% of the beef and to a large degree they exist in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. You know, we probably see out there talking to farmers and ranchers, the smaller operations on the way out. It's a few quarters of land, eight quarters of land at Rapid City or in Saskatchewan someplace. We think at some point probably they're gonna get pushed out. But I'd be interested to see what Travis has to say there.
Travis Toews:Well, roy, I think we've seen a trend that was really accelerated post-BSE on optimizing herd size. It was really optimizing economies of scale. During the time it was most competitive operations made it and those that weren't didn't, and so we really observed in Canada, herd sizes grew and the data you have, anecdotally, that rings true for me Because we've certainly seen an increase in herd size. Back in the day and really I love this about Alberta and about this region Everybody had 40 cows right.
Roy Carter:It was the.
Travis Toews:Cor Blonde song, you got to have cows around. I still am a big believer in that. But post-BSE it just wasn't fun anymore and so we had a lot of. You know, really it was probably hobby herds and they sold out and you know, larger, more commercial operations stepped into some of that opportunity during those years. And you know I think I heard it today from somebody pretty smart during every challenge there's opportunity and uh and and you know what? Um, there was opportunity post BSE and some operations uh sought and they expanded and uh and ultimately um were more competitive because of it, because of those economies of scale. So that trend began then, accelerated then and and it's continuing today. Interesting.
Devon Davidson:Speaking of trends, economic trends, are you still bullish on agriculture right now, despite some of the overall concerns of the economy? Tariffs, interest rates, all of that?
Travis Toews:Absolutely. I mean I'm a huge fan of agriculture. It wasn't many years ago when the FAO predicted that in the very near future, canada would be one of only five nations in the world that is a net exporter of food products. I mean, that's huge. That is not only a huge opportunity, I would say it's a huge responsibility for Canada to get on with competitive production and, ultimately, export distribution, processing of agriculture and food products.
Devon Davidson:So, speaking in terms of productivity, what have you noticed in terms of GDP per worker? In terms of productivity, what sort of trends are you seeing right now?
Travis Toews:Sure, if you've read the things that are written and published in national papers, you'll know that I am alarmed at our declining productivity, particularly relative to that of the US, and the latest data set we have from Stats Canada would show that, on average, by sector, our productivity is measured by GDP per hour worked, which is around $65 an hour. The goods producing sector is about 20% higher than that. Agriculture fits into that, so agriculture is part of the remedy around increasing our productivity, and so that's going to be key. Obviously, the resources sector broadly, are part of the solution. There, the oil and gas industry productivity as measured per GDP per hour worked is approximately 10 times the average, and so, as a country, we need to get on with what we do well, and that is we need to get on with producing agriculture and food products, and we need to get on with energy and natural resources.
Devon Davidson:Yeah, okay. The next topic of conversation here, guys, is plant-based alternatives real or myth. So, travis, you're well aware, a few years ago it felt like plant-based alternatives, like Beyond Meat and Impossible Meats, were a huge trend. A lot of people were talking about it. We saw it in a lot of restaurants and things like that across the country.
Travis Toews:But the hype seems to have faded a little bit, and you know, let me know if you agree with that. And then why? Now? An insatiable demand for high quality protein globally, and so there's going to be room for all types and all different sources of protein, including lots of plant-based protein. I think there's opportunity in the prairies for a focus on plant-based proteins. However, what we've seen in the meat alternatives area and sector we saw a tremendous amount of hype in 2015 to about 2020. Yeah, and beyond meat, I think their stock maxed out at about $195 a share in 2020.
Travis Toews:Guess what it traded for February 28th here last week Just over $3. I was shocked. I looked it up, I couldn't believe it. And so here's the thing North American consumers, when push comes to shove, I think, want the authentic thing, and I've got a story, if I can share it. My brother and his wife were down in Phoenix when COVID kind of hit down there, and, of course, everybody was running out of every Costco with toilet paper and whatever else they could grab. And so my brother sent me a picture of the meat counter in Costco and it was about I don't know 100-foot meat counter, whatever they are and it was empty, except for one section in the center, and it was all the fake meat that was rightful, you know, and my conclusion was this when the chips are down, um, we want the real thing and I think, I think you know that principle has really underpinned what economists would say is incredibly resilient beef demand in North America and that's positive long-term for those in the cattle industry.
Devon Davidson:That just leads to my next question, which is would you agree there's seemingly inelastic demand for beef? Yeah, the numbers would prove that out. Yeah, okay, despite economic downturns, or even something like COVID, consumers still appear to prefer beef, is that?
Travis Toews:It's true, and I think you know, again, economists are always evaluating consumer habits and trends and you know what, what you know, items will they prioritize, and it would appear that Canadians and Americans will, you know, they'll forego a lot of products before they'll forego beef. And so, again, if you're a cattle producer in Canada, in Alberta, here you're all in Western Canada, that's a really positive thing. We've got really strong, resilient beef demand and, and you know some of I should also add that some of the most acute health concerns, um, most acute health concerns around um red meat products, some of those have been, um proven less accurate than than what they were believed to be, you know, maybe five and ten years ago. Interesting, and and I think more and more nutritionists and even those in the medical community will say that beef, which is an incredibly, you know, high, highly nutrient, dense source of protein, yes, can be a critical part of every diet, and so I think that's starting to resonate as well my wife's a dietician.
Devon Davidson:Sorry, no, I was gonna say my wife's a dietician. She can totally attest to that.
Roy Carter:All right, yeah yeah, there's and there's definitely more focus on the ultra processed aspect of these, beyond beef or beyond meats, and I think it's, you know, waking people up as to what's in it. So I think people are more and more aware of what they eat and I think that's part of backing away from that shelf as well.
Devon Davidson:Yeah, we want to talk about the potential for high-end products like Wagyu beef. Yeah, we want to talk about the potential for high end products like Wagyu beef. So, according to one source that I read, global Wagyu is projected to reach roughly $25 billion US in 2025, reaching as high as $42 billion in 2032.
Travis Toews:What's driving that trend for high end beef products like that? No-transcript, say the Australians, where the Wagyu industry it's just blowing up. I would say that they're a bit behind. Um, you know Canada North, the North American industry in terms of quality, and so I I think there's more of a differential between high quality Wagyu beef in Australia and their kind of commercial product than there is in North America. I mean, we have an incredible product in North America. Now there are Wagyu supply chains in North America that are doing well and I know some of the operations and clearly there's demand for that high-end quality beef. But let me just put a plug in for the high-quality commercial beef products that you can go down at Costco and buy today. Yeah, it's incredible and you won't find anything that good in the world.
Devon Davidson:All right, we're going to get into Alle's favourite topic conversation here, and that's certified humane beef and the Earl's controversy, right? So I think everyone's going to be well aware of this one. But you know, in April of 2016, earls had announced that they were sourcing all their beef from a US supplier under the Certified Humane Program, citing a commitment to animal welfare standards. They faced heavy backlash, right, and I think they apologized and they reversed that decision fairly quickly. Where do you see this trend going in terms of
Travis Toews:Yeah, I was at a beef conference when, you know, the Earl's executive team apologized profusely and I gave them credit for it, you know, they recognized that they had made a blunder, they owned it and they changed direction. So I gave them full marks for that. You know. I think what bothered us as cattle producers were that, you know, you know, was this they were looking to differentiate their, differentiate their product, um, with you know, some, you know, maybe unusual production protocols or specific production protocols, or they thought were specific, right, and and they were selling their product as humane which, uh, ultimately, by virtue of them calling their product humane, it disparaged the rest of Canadian beef products which, as a rancher, we believe that everything we do is humane. In fact we work hard at it, as I think virtually all cattle producers do, and that's where they got into trouble. And so you know, I appreciate that various retailers and supply chains look to differentiate their product. We've seen that in other supply chains as well, and maybe they might, you know, supply chains might be advocating, for, you know, no implants, no additional, you know, hormone use or no antibiotics, and on and on, you know, and that's fine, but but here's what I would have to say is we have an incredibly safe food safety system in canada, and you know, product cattle that are raised with the benefit of implants, for instance, are every bit as safe and nutritious as beef from cattle that are raised without additional added hormones. And so the problem with differentiating your product that way is it indirectly disparages the other product, and unfairly and inaccurately, and so that's my concern.
Travis Toews:And here's the other concern with it. For instance, let's go back to implants. Hormone implants have ultimately increased the productivity in the beef industry by about 10%. That means 10% less land, 10% less water, 10% less feed, 10% less greenhouse gases in the production of beef. And so those supply chains that will say we don't use any beef from cattle that have had implants effectively what they should be saying is we have the least sustainable beef products in Canada because that's what they're selling Interesting, sustainable beef products in Canada, because that's what they're selling Interesting. And the other concern I have with that approach is it provides huge disincentive for additional R&D, research and development on new innovative animal production products. Right, because they're concerned they'll be unfairly disparaged by consumers. You know what we need to base our decisions on science, and we can't, either directly or indirectly, disparage sound scientific practice.
Devon Davidson:So does that just go back to education between the industry and the public? Like is there just a real disconnect there?
Travis Toews:It does, it certainly does, and the beef industry, cattle industry, works hard at that, um, but but you know, I I think it's so easy to take five steps back when somebody in a supply chain you know indiscriminately backhands uh, safe, responsible, commercial beef production in Canada.
Devon Davidson:Would you say in your experiences is there? Is there more accountability amongst consumers now than there was in years past, or is it just sort of an?
Travis Toews:evolving thing, you know. I think to Roy's point. Consumers want to be informed and I think we're seeing that more now than ever. And I think that's a good thing Because, ultimately, the more informed consumers are, ultimately the more sustainable demand will be and it will send the right market signals to the industry to produce what they need, provided they're accurately informed. We have a responsibility there.
Roy Carter:I think accurately is a big word In the case of Earl's and the fact that they apologized. I think our big buyer of 4-H beef cows, that's all great, but at the time somebody in their marketing department missed the word accurate. It turned out as a law firm. We searched and they actually bought the trademark certified humane and anybody could buy that and it could be your old slaughter cows in the back 40, or you could apply it to your dogs, right, but they acquired that trademark and yeah, I think people just want clarity and the truth, right?
Devon Davidson:Okay, the next thing we want to talk about was grain farmers' influence on land prices. I think we touched on that a bit already, but grain farmers are putting upper pressure on land prices, and do you see that pendulum swinging back the other way?
Travis Toews:phenomenon, roy, at least in initial discussions. And you know, and I think it's it's rational, logical, that that you will see that I, you know, cattle producers, cattle ranchers, are going to have, um, an opportunity to expand here, and there'll be every price signal to do so where there is today. And so, um, you know, I, I do think that you know, they'll start stepping into perhaps some marginal land when in fact, maybe before, they wouldn't do it. One thing I can't help myself, but there's some government policy here that I think needs to be righted Right now.
Travis Toews:In Western Canada the grains and oilseed sector have had, I would say, a distinct advantage over the cattle industry in the whole crop insurance programming, which two-thirds of crop insurance premiums, of course, are paid for by the government, and the programming has really advantaged greens and oilseeds producers and that's great. I'm not suggesting that should change for them, but I think that it's been hard for governments to ultimately find equivalent programming in the cattle and beef industry. Now don't hear me say that I like government involvement and subsidy. I don't. But what I do want is a level playing field between sectors, otherwise, again, you start to distort price signals around investment flows.
Devon Davidson:So, given that information there, let's talk a little bit about enhancing productivity on limited land. Can ranchers do more with less, given innovation and research, and what can they be doing or should be?
Travis Toews:doing. Well, you know what. Leave it to Canadian farmers and ranchers to find innovative methods to improve productivity. That you know. That's, you know that's been their call signal for the last hundred years, and so you know. What you're seeing now is you're seeing, you know, higher productivity feeds growing. You know the corn industry is moving north right and we've seen big investment by seed companies on developing lower heat unit varieties. So I just can't wait to be growing corn every year and silaging it up here in the peace country.
Travis Toews:Sure, I might say something about global warming, but I'll avoid that right now.
Roy Carter:It's, you know. Sorry there, Travis, it's interesting. Us is the biggest beef producer in the world and they have approximately a third of the cows that Brazil does. Brazil's got almost three times the numbers, but they can't produce what the US does.
Travis Toews:Yeah, well, yeah, there are. You know we talked about performance production enhancing products such as growth implants. Those are important technologies in order to improve beef production. I you know, I think what you've seen here and I'll use a personal example as land prices have risen and that's been reflected in land rents, all of a sudden that changes the equation on, perhaps, our decisions as to whether we're going to grow, perhaps, alfalfa or barley silage, so we can produce probably almost twice the product with cereal silage, even though our cost of production is much higher per acre. But again, just given the economics, we grow a lot more cereal silage than we used to.
Travis Toews:And it's those kinds of decisions that the farmers and ranchers make every day that ultimately result in increased production and ranchers make every day that ultimately result in increased production. And these higher prices are going to encourage the adoption of new and innovative technologies. You see that in simple things, like even the mobile solar water systems that are out there right now, they improve water quality exponentially, which has a big impact in livestock gains and maintenance and rebreeding reproductive rates. So those are the kinds of things that you know. That trend is going to continue and higher returns will only accelerate it.
Devon Davidson:Yeah, agriculture has always been an incredibly innovative industry, right? You see so many things In Saskatchewan. You see it all the time, lots of stuff with the crop production show and all this ag and motion, all that kind of stuff. We want to touch a bit on the future of small mixed farms. So, would you say, with economies of scale and specialization, is that going to dictate that the days of the small mixed farms are kind of going away?
Travis Toews:You know, I don't think so. I think there's going to be a niche opportunity for, you know, probably almost every structure, but but it'll be a niche opportunity. I think the general trend is larger. You know more commercial operations that are ultimately get the benefit of economies of scale and and, um, you know, and, and there's also a benefit at times in specializing right, I mean, we, we know all about that, but but there will be a opportunity for smaller, mixed farms and, and you know, family farms, um, if, if, you will there, there will. Firstly, it's um, you know, it's, it's a quality of life that so many aspire to, yeah and uh, and and again, I believe that the agriculture industry is strong enough to support those kinds of businesses as well and they will be able to, you know, meet maybe niche demand that larger commercial operations won't be willing to meet or able to meet competitively.
Travis Toews:Livestock side, a particular type of livestock that are going into a niche market, or maybe in the grains industry, maybe it's a particular seed product, you name it. I think there will be opportunity. General trend larger operations, more competitive operations, and I don't think we should try to buck that. That's going to leave us more competitive globally. Will there be opportunity for family farms? Guaranteed, ok.
Devon Davidson:Interesting as hers get larger. Are we going to see more online marketing from the ranch down the road?
Travis Toews:Short answer is yes. Right now, I would suggest. There's a high, high percentage of cattle traded on online platforms marketing platforms right now, and it's an incredibly efficient. You know more humane way to market livestock. And again, I appreciate our local auction markets. They provide a great value and serve a great purpose and will continue to serve that purpose in the future. But online platforms are a way of the future in terms of cattle marketing and you know, and you talked about. You know increasing productivity, about um, you know increasing productivity in the cattle and beef industry. I should also mention that you know data man management and that whole realm is an area where many operations are stepping into and you know you can't manage what you don't know, and so, right, the ability to manage data in your cow herd, you know, from everything from genetics to performance tied to production practices just provides that extra information and data set that allows you to make much better management decisions.
Devon Davidson:Yeah, we could probably spend an entire podcast on that topic alone, and I don't think it'd be a podcast in 2025 if I didn't ask you about artificial intelligence. Do you see a role of of ai in the cattle industry in the future?
Travis Toews:well, again, that's. That's going to go back to the the technology side data management, absolutely. You know I all you have to do is try. You know google, a topic, you want a little more information on you and you're using AI and it's benefiting you in your top feed. So there will be great opportunity, opportunity that I can't even probably articulate or I'm not aware of, but I'll just say there's going to be great opportunity on the AI side and, as an industry, we're going to have to not only take advantage of it but be sure to use it because, again, we compete globally. We need to be at the cutting edge.
Devon Davidson:All right, Just to wrap up here. If you had to sum up the state of the Canadian cattle industry in one sentence, what would that?
Travis Toews:be. Notwithstanding this tariff disruption, which this too shall pass, we in the cattle industry have great opportunity.
Roy Carter:Okay.
Devon Davidson:Excellent Roy. Any parting words no other than thanks to Travis.
Roy Carter:Yeah.
Devon Davidson:Yeah, thank you very much, travis. Really appreciate your time here this morning. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, it's been great to be here. That's going to do it for another edition of the Farmland Exchange Podcast. Thanks for joining us. We really appreciate you tuning in. If you want to leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice, it helps us to be found amongst the algorithms on the platforms and help other listeners to find us. If you want more information on the podcast, visit our website, CLHbid. com. Slash farmland exchange. Send us an email, info at CLHbid. com or give us a call 866-263-7480. We love to talk farmland. That's going to do it for another episode. I hope this has been a positive exchange for you. Take care.
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