Soil Classifications & Impact On Farm Land Values Feat. Tim Garner

Tim Garner: 0:00

The Farmland Exchange, the official podcast of chlhbid.com. Expert insights on buying and selling farmland in Western Canada.

Devon Davidson: 0:13

Welcome back to the Farmland Exchange, the official podcast of CLHbid.com, where we bring you expert insights into the process of buying and selling farmland here in Western Canada. I'm Devin Davidson, your host. If you haven't already, please take a minute to like, rate, and review the show. It really helps us out, and we would really appreciate it. On today's episode, we're talking about soil classifications in Western Canada and how they pertain to selling farmland. And uh to help us with that conversation, as always, Roy Carter, CEO uh CEO of CLHBid.com. Roy, thanks for being here. And we've also brought in a special guest, uh Tim Garner, who is a former instructor at Fairview College and a farmer here in the Peace Country. Tim, thanks for joining us.

Tim Garner: 0:57

Yep, thank you.

Devon Davidson: 0:58

So before we jump into our conversation, maybe just let our listeners know a little bit about yourself, you know, who you are and what you do, what your background is.

Tim Garner: 1:04

Yeah, I uh grew up in that Spruce Grove area, West Edmonton, and went to university. And after university, I worked for an agricultural chemical company for five years. And then I decided to buy some land in the peace country, and which I did. Then I joined the college because uh um I I could I could work part-time and tried to make the farm a goal. And I taught in the area of uh turf grass management, which is mostly golf course people and agriculture diploma program. And uh since leaving the college, I started a small spring company, mostly industrial in the oil field. And in the winter I do some teaching online webinars uh for pesticide applicators.

Devon Davidson: 1:47

Okay, you're a busy guy. Sounds like you'll have lots of knowledge to share with us then for sure. Um, could you maybe start by giving us a high-level overview of what is soil classification and and why was it developed in Canada?

Tim Garner: 1:59

Well, um, it first started, you know, uh first of all, uh the glaciers left 12,000 years ago. And so then uh this is what we're we're left with this parent material, and the governments wanted to know uh if what was arable. And Canada is the second largest country in the world, I believe, and it's uh but only less than 10 percent is is farmable. And so they wanted to know what was farmable and what wasn't farmable, and so they came up with two, I call them two classification systems, one provincial and one uh more of a federal uh program. And so in the 1850s, uh Palliser on his horse was riding around Western Canada, and it's interesting he had he declared a Palliser Triangle, which went from Calgary uh to almost south of Saskatoon and just to the west part of Winnipeg, and he declared it unhabitable. No, don't no one should move into that area. No one can farm that area, and uh today that's one of the most productive uh breadbaskets in the world.

Devon Davidson: 3:11

Yeah, that's incredible, actually. Wow. Uh so then when did where did that data come from then? Like, did they actually walk the land? We were talking this a little bit off offline. Um, it's interesting. Like, how do they know there's bushquarters and stuff where uh those lines are still pretty distinct?

Tim Garner: 3:26

Yeah, so uh I did some reading on it, and um so each province, and you gotta go they started before the 20s, but not really after, and then it got going after the 20s and then to the 30s. And um they so each province, you gotta realize there was no internet, no cell phones, no phones, no power, and so they couldn't communicate with each other, I'm sure, pretty well. So each province kind of uh depending on who the lead scientist was or the researcher, they kind of followed that system. And many of the systems were based on the Russian uh system of and we still use that today, uh the soils like Chernozemic, uh, Solonetsk, Luvasolic are all uh Russian words. And so then the provincial, so the provincial uh would go at it for a couple years and and and then they'd lose funding, stop, go funding again, start again. And what they did is in the 30s, um the guys would leave June 1st on horseback and go into the bush uh with pack horses and come out September 30th. And so I actually actually what you're saying, yeah, they they uh they walked much of the land. And I I can't believe how accurate they were with the technology of that day.

Devon Davidson: 4:52

That's really interesting. Uh so how long would that process have taken?

Tim Garner: 4:55

Uh, you threw some dates out there, but yeah, well, they'd go for two years, then get funding would be cut for two years, they'd go, and so it occurred over uh in 1955 they started using helicopters, okay, right for the first time. And so it's been an ongoing process and it'll still be ongoing. Is it perfect? No, it's not perfect, but boy, it's pretty darn good for the work that they did that long time ago.

Devon Davidson: 5:19

Yeah. So how often are those maps updated then? I mean, does it happen frequently or is it infrequent?

Tim Garner: 5:27

It's very infrequent. Um it's all related to funding and stuff like that from because it's government. Yeah, it's not going to be free enterprise isn't going to uh fund it. Uh governments have to. And so uh I see it uh still occurring in the future, uh, but we'll have so much more technology, drones, helicopters, satellites, and I think I think we'll get accurate, more accurate. But you know, they're not that bad, right?

Devon Davidson: 5:59

For yeah, no, as you said, they're they're incredibly accurate for for when they were implemented in the technology they had at the time. Uh we'll we'll dive into the tech side of it a little bit later, but before that, I just want to kind of ask you um, what are some of the differences between the Canada Land Inventory System and those provincial classification systems? Some of there's some differences there, right?

Tim Garner: 6:17

Yes. Uh the Canada Land Inventory is more of a broad view. It has a rating of uh one to seven, one being the best, seven being bad, and then they have an organic rating. And so um, and then they rate uh things like slope and stoniness and climate, where the the Albert or the provincial ones go way deeper. They go into so they go down, drill down, they look at soil profiles, they look at management practices. Uh a soil profile is let's say the top three feet of the soil. Uh they'll dig down, they'll do p pH measurements. So it was far more in detail than Canada inventory. But I really like Canada land inventory to begin with. You know, that's my first go-to is pull out the CL CLI map. Yep.

Roy Carter: 7:11

So when they were, sorry, Devin. No, go ahead. When they were in the 30s and out on horseback, obviously they weren't sending samples to a lab. Um, this would be just basically assessment of these people in the field, then, eh? So every night or whatever, they would write up their assessment of what they saw, eh?

Tim Garner: 7:28

Yeah, they may have uh little pH kits or but but you're right. There was no no labs then, or you know, the labs would be hundreds of miles away. And so I just can't believe how accurate they were with the the tools that they had. Yeah, I can't believe it. It's pretty mind-blowing, actually.

Devon Davidson: 7:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh you'd mentioned sort of those like provincially or regionally, they'll they'll dive deeper, right? They get into a lot more testing. So, how does that impact how farmers and appraisers interpret soil quality? Is that something that they look at?

Tim Garner: 7:58

Well, they should.

Speaker 3: 8:00

Yeah.

Tim Garner: 8:00

If they don't, they they they should. That's the first thing I do. Uh, because land is very variable. Uh, one quarter may be number two, and the next quarter may be a number five. Um the one thing about farmers, uh, I imagine most of your land sells to uh local people in lots of cases.

Roy Carter: 8:20

Totally 98% of the time.

Tim Garner: 8:22

Yeah. Yeah. And so they'll be familiar with it because they've drove by that field 30 years in a row. Yeah. And so they they may not have to go to the soil maps because they're so familiar with it, they might as well have been farming it because they see it every day. Uh where uh where you look at groups coming in from Europe or maybe the Hutterite brethren, they would need to really do some research. Uh, you know, uh if they're moving into a brand new area. And uh that would be the first spot is look at Canada inventory, hire an agrologist, uh, look at the Alberta Soil Survey or Saskatchewan Soil Survey or whatever. And so I look at it automatically because any land that comes up, you don't know uh what's two miles down the road. You know, you think you know, but you don't.

Devon Davidson: 9:11

You know, it's funny when I first started with CLH, there was that sale in Viking, Roy, that uh we had those two quarters that were, I don't know, five miles apart or something, and and one sold really well and the other didn't. And it was, I think, because of the it was alkali or something in the one quarter, but the the locals knew, right?

Roy Carter: 9:26

And uh yeah, totally. That's that's a good example. I was thinking about that when I was listening to the show. As you're saying, yeah. The lady there, she was in her 80s, uh, but and it was appraised. And that the one by the airport was Solonatsa heavy, and she knew it was the poorer quarter by far. And she she when she called us to sell, she said the appraiser is wrong. Uh yeah, you know, he's got the quarters wrong. And here's here's this lady, you know, 86 years old saying the appraiser's wrong and and I know my land, right? Yeah, yeah. Exactly what Tim's saying.

Devon Davidson: 10:00

Yeah. Well, so so that probably answers I had a question to ask you later, but do you you know, can a farmer just look at soil and sort of say, I I know what it is or I know what it should be?

Tim Garner: 10:09

Um, no, not necessarily. Only with experience of living nearby, you may have some of that experience. But other than that, no, you you know, you can look at the color, and if it's black, it's you know, that's that's a good sign. Yeah, for sure.

Devon Davidson: 10:27

Okay. Um when it comes to farmland sales, how important would you say soil classification is? And and is that CLI number as important as we once thought it was?

Tim Garner: 10:37

Uh, I think my personally, I think it's uh it makes makes my decision whether I'm going to buy the land or not. I don't want to buy uh if I want to farm crops like wheat and canola and barley, uh I'm not gonna buy a number five soil. Nope. I you know, uh you're just not going to uh get very good crops. And so uh you've got to to look at that and and and realize uh what you're gonna get into. I was actually looking at bidding on some CLH uh land, but one quarter was number five, and no, I wasn't gonna bid now because what am I gonna do with it? Now, if you had cattle, it's a little different story. Sure. Because cattle, uh you it's per basically permanent pasture at the best, and you know, and so if you have cattle, then there's some hope, but uh, you know, other than that, you know.

Devon Davidson: 11:32

Well, and and I asked that question because Roy, we talked about the land around Bow Island. You said some guys down there actually don't mind class five soil because it's irrigated, and and so maybe you go into some of the reasoning there.

Roy Carter: 11:42

I don't know, but yeah, I definitely don't know what Tim knows, but I uh, you know, we have sold a fair amount of land, or we've got a fair amount of land up for sale in that area. And listening to the the beet and potato guys and that, uh, you know, the water solves a lot of problems. And it seems like they want percolation and they don't want the heavy soils and that, uh, maybe sandier, lighter. And so uh the number scares them a bit less when they can use their iPhone in town and turn on a water on. Yeah. Um, if that makes sense.

unknown: 12:13

Yeah.

Roy Carter: 12:14

And the uh so these guys are saying um they're surprised what they can do with a four or five with potatoes and that. Right. But it's it's only because of those pivots and water, is is what I see for sure.

Tim Garner: 12:25

Yeah, when I first came out of university and I wanted to buy some land, I says, Oh, land the land doesn't matter. I can add nutrients, I can add water, no big deal. Well, I was wrong, right? But but when you have irrigation and you you need drainage, all of a sudden poor land becomes really good land, right? Yeah, exactly.

Devon Davidson: 12:49

So, sort of as a follow-up there, then Tim, does a CLI rating of a one or two automatically mean the land is going to sell more per acre? Or or do you look at the subclasses that how important is the subclass? Things like drainage, um, salinity, stoniness, all of that factor into it.

Tim Garner: 13:02

So we we have no number one land up in the peace country that I know of, right? None of the I've ever seen it on the map. And so what happens if uh one of the subclasses is so severe, they'll downrate number one to number two. And I believe that's what happened in the peace because of climate. When they first came up here, probably frost early August was very common, which isn't not anymore, but it was, and so so that's kind of built into the system right away, uh, so that you'll get a downrating of the class with one of those subclasses if it's severe enough. And so I look at the subclass because you know, I did buy some land with lots of stones, and that's a lot of work, right? And it causes a lot of hassle uh, you know, for growing things such as peas and stuff like that. And so a lot of work for J and A, probably. Yeah. Oh, we picked a lot of rocks by hand. Oh man. But you know, and so so you gotta look at the subclasses can be important, and and one quarter may be stony, and two miles away there may be no stones. And so it's all depending on what the glacier left behind.

Devon Davidson: 14:16

In your view, what's the order of importance in terms of soil characteristics? Like if Tim's saying this is good land, what's sort of the order of importance when you look at that?

Tim Garner: 14:24

Um well, the rating number number one, number two, uh I uh I I look at that right away. Okay, and then as soon as I look at that, then then you I go to the the soil survey for the provincial and see what the series is are. And and what's important and what we lack up in the peace country is organic matter. Uh organic matter is like just like magic. Uh it it it provides fiber, it provides nutrients, it provides water holding capacity, it provides aeration. Um, it's magical. And so if my I had a poor crop this year, but if my soil would have had four or five percent organic matter, I'd had double the crop. I'm convinced of it, regardless of what fertilizer or anything. Uh so organic matter is important. So I'm always looking for number one or number two plus black organic matter, right? But the organic matter um uh is not on uh uh the CLI, CLI rating. Right. Right. Okay.

Devon Davidson: 15:32

And on the flip side, what are the biggest risks to soil quality? Erosion, acidity?

Tim Garner: 15:37

Uh depending on where you are. Uh you know, the south has got alkalinity problems. Us in the peace country, we have acidity problems. Many of our soils are lower pH, and soon as soon as you get to lower pH, you just don't grow the crops. Um, and to rectify the problem, it it's not cheap, and it it takes not 10 pounds of uh lime per acre, it takes thousands of pounds of lime per acre. So now you gotta source the lime, you gotta put it on. And so many people, uh you know, I I see lime piles around, but not not many people can afford to do that. But so you got to look at these uh uh other factors, absolutely.

Devon Davidson: 16:18

Well, so that's a nice segue into this this next segment here. We want to talk about micronutrients, zinc, copper, lime, boron, manganese, um, and then some of the restrictions that are placed on soil. So could you maybe give us a quick overview of the restrictions that are in place?

Tim Garner: 16:31

So most of our soils in Western Canada are deficient in nitrogen, right, and phosphorus. Um, most of the soils are high in potassium. Sulfur is a problem for us in the peace. But the micronutrients are so what happens when the glacier left? It left behind something called parent material. And in that parent material, much of it uh I've never had any micronutrients in my life of farming. Um, but depending on what you're farming and the crops you're farming, you may be adding micronutrients. But the word micro means you need very little amounts of them, right? Where the the macronutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, magnesium, calcium, you need lots of them. Most of our soils have lots of calcium and magnesium, and so the four major fertilizers are nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and sulfur.

Devon Davidson: 17:26

Okay. Can these restrictions be managed or significantly reduced through micronutrients?

Tim Garner: 17:31

Uh micronutrients uh to me are not that uh big an issue. It would be, you know, but I it it would be more for the specialty crops. Maybe potatoes. Uh I I'm not sure. I've never grown some of these crops. And so uh, but like I say, I I don't think very many people add micronutrients on a regular basis. They may add a little bit, uh, you know, maybe it's but sometimes it could be more like snake oil they're putting on.

Roy Carter: 18:01

What about that's interesting? What about depth of topsoil? What factors that? We you know, we sell land in in some areas in Saskatchewan or uh wherever where there's two, three feet of topsoil. And then uh secondly, hardpan, is that an issue? But maybe answer on the topsoil. Is that a big factor to you? Depth of topsoil?

Tim Garner: 18:22

Absolutely. The depth of the topsoil is uh absolutely critical. Um my grandparents at Spruce Grove, my my parents' land had three feet of topsoil, 90 centimeters, a meter of topsoil. It's like a no-brainer, right? Now, that didn't occur because uh my dad and my grandparents farmed, right? That was there. It's taken 10 to 12,000 for that years for that to develop. And you're not gonna change it in 50 years or 100 years. You're not even gonna have uh a 0.1% impact. Uh, you know, we can easily degrade soil way faster than we can improve soil, right? Because in lots of ways, farming is mining. We we were growing a crop and we're taking it off and we're selling it to China, the United States. Well, well, we're selling nitrogen, we're selling phosphorus that's come from our field. We're selling micronutrients. And so, as farmers, uh, we need to put back what we take out. And so I'm a big believer of not selling my straw uh unless I'm getting manure back, right? Because uh we in the peace country have very low organic matter, and so it's all related to where that soil developed. So when you see three feet of topsoil, that soil has been under grassland for 10,000 years. How that occurred, whether that occurred naturally through fires every few years, and so the Chernoxemic soils, which make up lots of Western Canada, are uh tremendous soils, and because they're Developed under grassland. They have neutral pHs, they have lots of calcium, magnesium, they have lots of organic matter. And so they're phenomenal soils. And but it had nothing to do with the last hundred years. You know, it wasn't magical. Unless you brought it out in a truck and dumped it on your field. Yeah, that's the only way you could increase organic matter.

Roy Carter: 20:21

In uh in my own case, hardpan, we're Solonetic. Um, we're we're on our uh daughter's farm right now, but the very half that we're sitting on, I deep ripped it years ago uh just to see if that would be a factor. It was huge. You know, where I left samples, my barley would be 10 inches higher the next year, but it dissipated. Um, I think with no-till it helped uh the percolation and the organic matter down there. But is there any permanent way to solve that hard pan issue that you see if you've got five or six inches of topsoil and then hard pan to deal with?

Tim Garner: 21:00

Yeah, and there's there's lots of soils in western Canada that are solonetic or solod. Solonetic is bad, and then solod is uh you'd have more of a solod here. And so the I have some friends that rip every four or five years. And because what happens is if you limit your roots to the top six inches, in a case this year, like we were dry, you're in trouble, right? Because you're not going to get the yield. But if you can get those roots where they can go down a meter into the soil, uh, and that's uh and and so you could rip and then you could add lime and and and and that would help make it more long term. Uh another way is planting very aggressive perennials like alfalfa. Alfalfa will go through that hard pan and kind of put some permanent holes once it's dead, right? Because where the roots were. Yeah. So so there are some crops that will help the solod, but ripping, and then uh again, I think you have to probably rip every four or five years. Okay.

unknown: 22:05

Interesting.

Devon Davidson: 22:06

Thanks, Jim. So uh from a seller's perspective, would it be beneficial to point out some of these soil management efforts when when selling land? You know, would would a buyer look maybe beyond the CLI number if they recognize that there's been some soil management practices in place?

Tim Garner: 22:20

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's that's important that the seller tell them that you know what the management is. I just had a friend that bought a quarter that's uh polluted with scentless chamomile, right? Um and he didn't know it. He just bought it for hunting and stuff like that. I wouldn't touch that land because as soon as they work it, so that so now there's another factor involved. So it's not a soil factor, but all of a sudden you have noxious weeds, and in the this area around Grand Prairie, Tansy is out of control, right? And so, and so these weeds can have a great impact on crop production, right? And so um, so yeah, lots of other factors can play into it besides soils.

Devon Davidson: 23:04

Well, that another good segue. So, how we have things like um precipitation, drought flooding, temperature, how is that all factored in? Has soil changed much given those factors over the last hundred years?

Tim Garner: 23:16

Well, I you know, our climate's changed. Uh we still haven't had frost here up in the peace country, and this is you know late September, which is, you know, uh and in the 30s and 40s, I I so the climate has changed. So that that's one thing. But our soils going to change? No. You know, all the best management practices, all the proper rotations, um everything you do is going to change the soil maybe positively, but so minute in a lifetime that you don't realize it. Right. Where we, on the other hand, we can do the opposite, where we can take it down very quickly. And what happened in the southern prairies for years, they would summer fellow 50% and farm 50%. And then when a wind came, all of a sudden you lost a half inch topsoil. Well, it's on the fence line. Where are you going to get that back? No one's gonna go and get it, pull it out of the fence line, and put it back on the field. So it's lost. 10,000 years of work is gone in in a few hours. And uh and up here in the piece, it's uh water erosion or the northern prairies, it's all water erosion is just as bad as wind erosion. Because if you lose some of your topsoil, you don't get it back, it gets into the river system and ends up in the Arctic.

Devon Davidson: 24:33

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Um, how is zero-tail farming impacted soil ratings and soil quality?

Tim Garner: 24:41

Uh zero-tail farming is the way to go, I believe, in most soils. You know, individual farmers will know whether it works or not. Um is it gonna is it helping the soil? Yes, it will help the soil. But significantly, no. I told you 10,000 years, you're not gonna replace in 50 years. But it's the right way, right direction to go, I believe. Um, and so and it and it's really helping the south because now there's no wind erosion, right? Because if you've got stubble, you're you're not gonna have wind erosion. And up here, uh, if you have stubble, you're not gonna have near the water erosion unless it's a catastrophic event, right? And so um, yeah, zero till is we soil is meant to have vegetation growing, and anytime you don't have vegetation growing, it's prone then uh to wind or water erosion. Yep.

Devon Davidson: 25:45

Okay. Yeah, you touched on it earlier, and I just want to talk about it a little bit more now. But uh, modern tools like satellite imagery, drones, precision ag, how is that changing how we understand soils?

Tim Garner: 25:55

Um, again, it's going to be, I think we're going to be able to have better maps in the future, right? More accurate. Um, but again, it's uh I think it's I don't see I I well I could see farmers doing it themselves, you know, hiring a little bit of it. Um I have uh, you know, and so it's gonna play a huge impact. And so you'll probably have to hire a professional agrologist. I go on to some of these websites. Um, there's a soil viewfinder with Alberta Agriculture, so they'll have that in each province. Boy, they're hard to get around. And then the C the CLI maps are online. Holy cats, it takes me an hour to find, right? Because there's hundreds of them, right? And so that's where you can reach out and ask for some help. Um I I was uh and I was doing some reclamation work for an oil company, and at the hangar where we were, they were mounting the system on a helicopter so that they were going to fly uh you know lines back and forth over the land and pick up all kinds of data. And I think you'll see more of that in the future. And so it should get better, especially with the technology we have today.

Devon Davidson: 27:13

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um have you seen any examples where maybe a lower class rating has outperformed a higher class rating due to due to farm management, soil management?

Tim Garner: 27:25

Well, uh yeah, certainly, you know, if if the person knows they're limited and and plant things like alfalfa and get bumper hay crops because the alfalfa will go through the solar layer and uh and uh it's aggressive. Um, you know, but so you so sometimes you need to use only certain crops in certain lands, you know, plant only certain things. And if you plant the right crops, you may outdo the soil next door that planted the wrong crop.

Devon Davidson: 27:53

Okay. Uh who would you say uses soil classifications the most today? Farmers, lenders, appraisers, or investors.

Tim Garner: 28:02

Um appraisers should use them. Uh I I can't see the you know whether they're trained in them, I'm not sure, but they should be trained in using, you know, both the CLI and the soil surveys, especially if they're praising farmland. Uh ethically, they if they're not doing it, I I can't understand why. Uh farmers, on the other hand, I I use it as a farmer, but again, many much of the land is lots of times sold locally. So the farmers know ahead of time how that land is. And so do I think lots of my neighbors have uh maps, soil maps? No, I don't.

Roy Carter: 28:44

Thanks, Tim. As far as appraisers, what we see, because sometimes our sellers have got an appraisal, whether it be for an estate or whatever, they'll refer to it, but it's kind of out of their, you know, it's basically the old appraisal they'll take and they're updating it from that area. It's got the CLI, it's got the soil map, but it's not used. Uh so they'll do comparisons and then adjustments, and they'll say, we'll adjust for this quarter 10% because that one is up in that area, but they'll never adjust and say, well, that was a CLI two and this is a four, so we need to adjust.

Devon Davidson: 29:19

Okay.

Roy Carter: 29:20

So there's a reference to it, but never, I've never in any farm appraisal seen where they actually address it or adjust price because of it. Interesting. Yeah.

Devon Davidson: 29:29

Are there any misconceptions, common misconceptions amongst buyers when it comes to CLI ratings?

Tim Garner: 29:37

No, I I I no, I don't think so. Um it's pretty, you know, it's just pretty standard, right? And and and it's not that complicated system, especially CLI, where it's one to eight, right? One being the best, seven being bad.

Devon Davidson: 29:56

So it's pretty pretty cut and dry, straightforward.

Tim Garner: 29:59

Pretty cut and dry. Okay. I I cut off myself at number three. Right? Okay. Yeah. Fair enough.

Devon Davidson: 30:05

Yeah. Um do you have anything else, Sarah?

Roy Carter: 30:09

No, I just going back to what Tim talked about. You know, unless you're uh a fescue guy or into some grasses, maybe the four works for that. Because they'll get maybe start looking at uh alkaline, you know, whether it be pH, uh acidity, all that stuff, that might be bigger to them than than some of the other numbers. Is that fair to say? If they're into specialty crops, yeah.

Tim Garner: 30:32

I think a real major factor for many farmers is location, location, location.

Speaker 3: 30:40

Yeah, right.

Tim Garner: 30:41

You know, if it's next door, you really got to think about buying it, right? You can make that work, yeah. You can make that work.

Devon Davidson: 30:48

It's a seven, but Tim's gonna make it work.

Tim Garner: 30:50

Well, no, no, no, no, but you know, all of a sudden, though, farming has changed where all of a sudden they pick up, pull up their air seater, fold it up, and drive 20 miles.

Devon Davidson: 31:00

Just like nothing.

Tim Garner: 31:01

Yeah, absolutely like nothing. Yeah, where you go back even 30 years ago, everybody farmed within one or two miles or three or four miles of their house. That was it, and now it's it's a changed world. But location is such a critical factor. If it's a number four, it's right across the road. Maybe I'd look at it. Okay.

unknown: 31:23

All right.

Devon Davidson: 31:23

And for anyone, buyers or sellers, if they want to better understand or interpret the soil classifications, what resources would you point them to?

Tim Garner: 31:31

Well, I can say the CLI is online. Um, I can say they're it they're hard to navigate because I'm not using them every day. And so if you you're using them every day, and maybe some appraisers are, they can get around like nothing. But boy, I tell you, I struggle because I use them and I'll use the Albert Sofile. They're online, and so everything's online and they're a tremendous resource, but getting to figuring out these things, and so then you maybe hire somebody that can help you do that, right? Like an agrologist that uh, you know, there may be companies that uh, you know, they know those systems very well. I don't know the systems very well because I only use them every once in a while, or I taught a little bit about them. But uh, you know, there are there might there are people that would be very familiar with the ratings and and you could hire them to help you for sure.

Devon Davidson: 32:28

Okay. Uh that's all I've got. Roy, do you have any other follow-up questions? No, I thought it was great.

Roy Carter: 32:33

I think yeah, Tim answered a lot of questions about where the numbers came from. And uh yeah, totally.

Devon Davidson: 32:39

Yeah, that's still really interesting and mind-blowing, actually, that they just wrote out there and they did a good job.

Tim Garner: 32:46

I just it's just amazing.

Devon Davidson: 32:48

Yeah. Okay, well, Tim, thank you very much for being here. Really appreciate your insight onto soil classifications. I think that's gonna be helpful for a lot of people.

Tim Garner: 32:55

Yeah, good. Thank you.

Devon Davidson: 32:56

Thanks, Tim. Awesome. All right, well, that's gonna do it for another episode of the Farmland Exchange Podcast. I hope you found some value in it. Uh, again, just a gentle reminder: if you haven't already, please like, rate, and review the podcast on your preferred podcast platform. Uh, if you have any questions regarding farmland sales um, or if you have some topics you'd like us to cover, please send us an email at infoCLHbid.com or give us a call at 866 263 7480. Uh that also applies. If you're interested in selling some farmland, please reach out to us. We we do love to chat. That's it for now. Thanks for tuning in. I hope this was a positive exchange for you.